What Will Healing Do For You?

Welcome to the Overcoming Sexual Abuse podcast where you get the tools and inspiration to help you overcome childhood sexual abuse. I’m your host, Christina Enevoldsen, certified coach, author and incest survivor, and I’m here to help you heal and live your very best life!

I’m joined by Andrea Tokheim and she shares where she started in her healing journey. The challenges, the milestones, and twists and turns along the way, you’ll be inspired and encouraged and take away some very helpful insights for your own healing journey.

Let’s start from the beginning. Obviously, we’re talking about healing from abuse and neglect. So what the heck happened to you that you had to work with me? 

Well, so, you know, my story is really similar to I think a lot of the people that are, you know, coming to this podcast. So I, you know, grew up and experienced sexual abuse, you know, in my home as a child. And then as a teen, I experienced sexual assault by a peer. 

So, and this is, you know, something that I know you’ve said so many, so many times before, Christina, that like sexual abuse doesn’t just happen in a vacuum. It happens, It always happens in the context of other abuse. So, you know, apart from, you know, the sexual abuse that I, you know, experienced, it was…some of the more painful things that I experienced was emotional neglect, physical neglect, physical abuse, emotional abandonment, things like that, that were a part of my family growing up. 

I also, another layer that added on to my family of origin was we had like a really textbook alcoholic family dynamic with my parents and my siblings and stuff. So that was a whole layer there. So when I came into adulthood, there was a lot. There was a lot there, you know to like to unpack and heal from and so yes, that’s kind of a quick story. 

Yeah and would you mind unpacking what it, for somebody not familiar with the dynamics of an alcoholic family? Can you describe what you experienced in your family? 

Yeah, for sure. So both my parents, they did have, just for starters, they had their own experiences with trauma as children and young adults. And so they came into their marriage with a lot of coping mechanisms, alcohol, drugs. And so when I was young, the dynamic was my dad was the drinker and my mom was codependent and she was like his enabler. She covered for him, she hid things from us. 

And then my sister and I, we kind of took on roles growing up. I was like the hero. I was the perfect one. I was the good one. You know I tried everything I could to like ease the tension in the family by being good and compliant and kind and helpful and getting straight A’s. You know, and then my sister was what sometimes in some of the literature they call the scapegoat. where it was like she was a little more like not as compliant as I was she was like she would you know speak out against things that she didn’t agree with or say what she really thought. And she often times got in trouble for that. So a lot of stuff was blamed on her like, “Oh, you’re the troublemaker.” 

So it was this thing where like my dad’s drinking and his addictions were like the central focus of the family and like keeping everything a secret and making everything look good and also just managing like his emotions kind of became like everybody else’s focus like we all kind of orbited around him and his you know inability to cope with life um you know in a healthy way. 

So um so there was just a lot of like you know like parentification was another thing too where like I kind of took on the role of like taking care of my parents, like I felt responsible for making sure my parents got up in the morning to go to work, making sure, you know, like they remembered this, remembered that. So I took on a lot of like parent-like roles at a really young age, you know, which was really common in a lot of those scenarios. So that’s kind of a little slice of it. 

Yeah, too common. Thanks for sharing that. And how did that impact what needs of yours got met and what parts were neglected?

Yeah, so that was a huge, huge part of where I learned like how I learned to like find my place in the world. Like, so in order to stay safe and to have some semblance of control in that system, like I learned like, “Oh, okay, if I don’t, if I just like don’t have any needs, if I don’t ask for anything, if I don’t need anything, if I’m low maintenance, then I can keep the peace you know, then that dad will be happy with me, mom will be happy with me.” You know, so I learned that like what I wanted was not really a part of the equation. Like my purpose was to like help everybody else in their situations. So it was really, really difficult because if I had a desire or a need that went against what other people wanted or were willing to provide, then it like bad and like, “Oh, you’re, you’re being disruptive. You’re being too much. You’re asking for too much, you know,” just like really basic things, you know. 

So, um, so I think the main lesson I learned was like to attune to other people and find out what they need, find out what they want. And, you know, then I could like have that acceptance, have that validation by providing what other people needed, you know? So, and I mean, it worked. I mean, for when I was from, you know, at a young age, it worked. I was like, I was my dad’s favorite. I was my grandpa’s favorite. Like, I was everybody’s favorite, right? But I was completely abandoning myself. 

And so once I, you know, into adulthood, it started to like, not work anymore, where I was like, “Oh, like, this isn’t, this isn’t key, you know?” 

Yeah. And I think that’s such a key thing for people to know is that when we’re abandoned as kids, then we need, by necessity, just survival, to abandon ourselves because we have to choose between that connection and authenticity. And we can’t do both because the real self is rejected. And so we need to take on these roles that mean we don’t get to be our true selves. And some people, some survivors, never come to that place of reconciling with their true selves. And it’s so sad. 

It, yeah, Yeah, it really is, and it’s so, and I do, I look back and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, like, wow, like, I grieve, you know, for like, how many years, like, I was always what other people needed me to be, you know what I mean?” And that abandoning myself was so easy and so second nature, And to the point where when I did start healing, that that was my work, those were the challenges, was that prioritizing myself and using my voice when it went against other people’s conveniences or whatever, that was difficult, you know? And it was like, I had to relearn it all over again.

Yes. I was just sharing with another survivor earlier today because she was talking about the same kind of thing about she was sharing that she just found herself being like a chameleon in different relationships you know, “Okay what do you need for me to be? Okay, that’s what I’ll be.” And I can so relate to that. I was telling her that I even went by different names I was known by Chris mostly while I grew up and then I went by Chrissy, Christie and then I also went by Lee, my middle name. And I was just trying on these different roles and different kind of personas. And I was just like, okay, what’s the right one? ‘Cause I was just so disconnected from myself and I just wanted to be accepted. So how did that impact your relationships going forward?

Oh, man. It was really, really pervasive. I mean, I think just first of all, because I wasn’t showing up as my authentic self. I think that was the biggest and most damaging thing because I was like desperate for other people’s validation, approval, acceptance. But at the same time, I wasn’t showing them who I really was, you know? I was being whatever I thought they needed me to be. Kind of like you said, like in different, ’cause you know, I had a really like a lot, kind of a diverse like friend group. I had like, you know, Just just a bunch of different groups that I would spend time with and so in each group, I showed up differently and so nobody really got to know the real me and then I would be like feel kind of sad and frustrated when I didn’t feel like a close connection. But then it was like well at the same time I’m like I’m not actually even showing up as me because I was terrified. 

I was so terrified that the main thought that I had that plagued me for years was if they really, if they only knew who I was, they would reject me. So I have to keep this mask. I have to keep up this facade. I have to present as what they, what I think that they want to see, right? Or else they’re gonna reject me. There’s no way I can show up as the real me. Like as soon as they find out who I really am, they’re gonna leave me, right? So that was the that was the biggest thought. So that produced a lot of insecurity like I never..so if people did show me true friendship and love, I was really I was really suspicious of it, you know, like “Oh, you don’t you only think that because I’m doing such a good job acting. You only think that because you know, I’m doing such a good job in placating you and, you know, you don’t know the real me.” Like that type of thing. So there wasn’t really opportunity for true connection and true closeness. 

And there was a lot of like I I used to say like, “Oh, I have social anxiety. I don’t think I had social anxiety, but my brain was just going a hundred miles an hour trying to attune to every person I met and make sure that I was presenting the way they didn’t need to be like, “Okay, don’t say something stupid. Don’t do this. Don’t do that. Okay. This person likes this. Okay. Don’t mention that.” It was exhausting. It was completely exhausting. It was like, I’m like, no wonder I no wonder I thought I had social anxiety. I was like, it was just pure exhaustion, just being around people because of all the gymnastics, all the mental and emotional gymnastics that I had that I thought I had to go through to be accepted. 

Yes. So exhausting. And when you kind of alluded to this, but it’s like when like genuine love, somebody really just genuinely wants to connect with you and love you and just wants you to be yourself. It’s like there’s no paradigm for that. And it feels so uncomfortable and so unfamiliar. It’s like, you said you didn’t trust it. And it’s like, yeah, what the heck is that? So what are some other ways that you notice the abuse and the neglect showing up in your life? 

Yeah, on so many levels. I mean, on one, just like a mental health level, my mental health was in not great shape. I had depression, I had anxiety. It was actually diagnosed with PTSD by a couple of different therapists. Um, I struggled a lot with OCD. Um, I just, I, I felt like I was just afraid of everything. Like I was afraid of trying new things. Um, so that really limited my, my, my experiences in life. Um, my sister used to joke with me. She’s like, “You have like a five mile radius.” You know, and I was like, “Yeah, like what’s the problem with that?” Like I just, I stayed in my little bubble, you know, like I was like, okay, I’m comfortable with this. And this is what I’m going to do, you know, 

I, let me think, I had, I had a lot of like, like health problems because of that too, like a lot of stomach problems and like migraines and just things that are like associated with like, basically like suppressing emotions, you know, I felt like I was going through life like numb like, you know, like I was just like almost like dead inside, where like funny things couldn’t really make me laugh, sad things couldn’t really make me cry. I was just kind of there, just like existing, you know, and it was not, it was not a fun place to be. You know, it was, it was, and I always another thing too, and this kind of goes with the relationship thing, like I always just had this feeling that I was different than everybody, that I was not part of a group, that I was somehow less than or bad or wrong or just somehow separate from everybody else. No matter if we had the same interests, no matter if I was working so hard to So just the right way, no matter if everybody was praising me, I always felt out of place. Like I didn’t belong. Like I just wasn’t worthy enough to be with like other people in society. So yeah. 

Yeah. That shame that you don’t belong here, kind of a feeling, that is like the main weapon of abuse and neglect. It’s like it puts something on you like you’re undeserving, you’re not enough or you’re not good enough and you don’t belong with us. You don’t have a right to be treated well. And so we carry that and that sense of not belonging. And I know for me, like it’s Like, okay, if you don’t belong in your own family, if you don’t feel like you’re accepted for who you are there, then where are you going to find it anywhere? Like, what is that? It just confirms, yeah, there’s something fundamentally wrong with me. 

Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s such a good point. It’s like that devastation of being like, oh, like in your own family, like the people who gave birth to you, you don’t even fit in like that’s like that’s wild, you know, like that’s, that’s, that’s a lot for, for a child, you know, that that’s not able to process that. So yeah. 

Yeah, it’s a lot for adults too, to really just get that like, like how it’s so painful, because you don’t know that it was the abuse and the just the mistreatment. You think you were born that way right and that you were mistreated because they picked up on the same thing that you did. That “Oh, yep,there’s there’s something wrong with her. She’s just..she’s marked. There’s something defective about her and so we don’t have to treat her well.” But you don’t know that you weren’t born that way. It was the mistreatment that did that. 

At what point did you start to heal? Like, how old were you? What was the thing that caused you to kind of seek out that, “Hey, I need to do something about this.” Was there a specific moment or was it kind of over time? What happened with you? 

Yeah. So, when I was, let me think. When I was 19, my sister and I started attending a church where the pastor and his wife were both working in counseling and the pastor was actually working on getting his MFT license. And he and the pastor’s wife had been through being raised in an alcoholic family as well. And so when we came to the church, they started getting to know us and we started sharing with them and she, you know, found out our, our family’s background and, um, and so she shared with me some of the literature, um, uh, at the time that was available for like adult children of alcoholics. And that was really like my first, I don’t know, like exposure to like self-help literature and like, um, putting a name to what I had experienced. And I was just like, whoa, like, it just felt so incredible that somebody like, like saw me. And like, when I would read this literature, I was like, has this lady like, did she, did you grow up in my house? How does she know this? Like, how does she like, how does she know all those stuff? So it was just really, really, um, it was really, really like, I don’t know, just amazing to like actually find, you know, information about what I had been through and what I had experienced and put a name to what I had experienced. 

So I did some counseling with the pastor’s wife and just kind of like did like a lot of like self study type stuff with her. And then we ended up switching churches and kind of, you know, got out of that. And so I kind of just kind of continued on, you know, just having a lot of the same symptoms, you know, just kind of was just like, “Oh, I have, you know, I have anxiety. This is just how it is. Oh, you know, I, I, you know, I have depression. It’s just how it is.” Like just kind of limping along, you know, with my, with my coping mechanisms, just kind of like not really thinking there would be a lot of help, you know. 

And then um, fast forward to like 2019. I, I’m not even really sure what the, I don’t know, inciting incident was, but it was just, I just started having this realization that like I didn’t, I didn’t like living like this anymore. I didn’t like living with my nervous system and chronic dysregulation. I didn’t like being anxious all the time. I didn’t like feeling depressed. I didn’t like, you know, not being happy to be alive. Like, I didn’t like that, you know, and I was just, I was like something. I guess, maybe my pain had gotten to a place where I was like, I have to do something. I have to do something. 

And so then I started, you know, I sought out some, you know, a therapist and found, you know, I ended up having to go through like five different therapists to find one that I really was like, okay, this is, you know, what I really am, you know, like this is helpful, you know. So I found a really good therapist and I did EMDR work. I did cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT, I did brainspotting. So I did, you know, a couple of different modalities. And that was really helpful. I was able to like, just go to the next like level, like we’re, you know, the, the information about the alcoholic family dynamics, that was like really helpful to like gain awareness. And then therapy she gave me like practical tools of like, okay, here’s how to work with your emotions, you know? And here’s how to take those steps in healing, you know? 

And then in 2021, I came across OSA and I joined Flourish and from there, it was like my healing just kind of like, I don’t know what the word is like skyrocketed where it was like, like I just, it took like, you know, it was going like at a nice steady pace. And then this just kind of like fast tracked it. So, yeah. 

Yeah. And what were, what was it that caused the fast track? Like, what were the, when you say it was fast tracked? Well, what are the milestones that you noticed? 

Yeah. So I so I think the fast tracking was, like, I really, really loved all the things I was learning in therapy and with my therapist. It was just really, really broad and coming into the OSA community, it was so specific and it was really addressing like the roots of some of these symptoms that I was having, you know, instead of just addressing each symptom as it would come up, it was kind of like, okay, let’s get to the root. And the other thing was that it was very, like very goal-driven and like intentional, like, okay, we’re gonna do work on this first and then this and then this, you know. And this is not to say anything anything bad about my therapist or anything like that. I totally believe in therapy and I had lots of success there. But Flourish was a little bit more, like, it had more of an intentional plan. And so I could see, like, where it was going, you know, and every module kind of built on another. So it was like starting up the foundation and then building and building and building until, you know, you were at the place that you wanted to be. So I think that’s where that kind of, you know, and there was just this also another level of understanding since it was with a community of people who had been through the exact same thing that I had been through, and then especially with you, Christina, like, you know, where some of the things that you shared, it was like, “Oh my gosh, like, that happened to me too, like, oh, wow!” Like, you know, and it’s just, it was just, it was so incredible to like, share in that, in that, have that shared experience, you know, which some, you know, not, you can’t always, you know, have that same type of dynamic, you know, you know, with a personal therapist. So yeah.

Yeah, I love what Flourish does for people. And just, you know, you’re the one who worked it. So kudos to you. What were some of the changes that you noticed in yourself? What did your healing do for you? 

There are so many changes, so many changes. I feel like one of the first changes that I noticed was just me coming home to myself and being able to prioritize myself and get on my side. I think, like you said, you addressed it before, what happens with abuse is we take those things that happen to us and we interpret it as an accusation that we’re this, we’re that we’re not good enough, you know, we deserve this type of treatment. And in order to survive, we like agree with those accusations and we turn against ourselves, right? And so we start saying those things to ourselves. And so one of the biggest things that I noticed was that I was turning towards myself and I was giving myself the care that I didn’t get, you know, growing up in that system, you know? And that was like revolutionary because, you know, ’cause even, okay, so even when I, when I, okay, when I first started Flourish, I actually still had like a self-abandonment mindset because when I first joined, I was actually holding on to this thought that I was broken, something was wrong with me and I needed to get fixed. And that’s why I was going to therapy, right? That’s why I was trying to heal, right? And so even that perspective was like I was trying to heal, but through this lens of self-abandonment, right? And so once I was able to get on my own side and like actually like support myself and accept myself and believe that, you know, like I am loved, I am worthy, that’s why I’m healing. Not I need to heal to be loved, right? I think that really, that really fast-tracked it.  

That is so powerful. Yeah. Yeah, that is that is something that a lot of people, you know, are just so desperate to heal. Like you said, because, “I want to feel lovable, and I need to fix myself to be loved.” And, and that isn’t the way it works, you know, because we’re just abusing ourselves, you can’t heal by abusing yourself, you know, criticizing yourself, telling yourself that you’re not lovable. And it’s amazing what happens in healing when you do finally get on your own side, when you do have compassion for yourself, and to, you know, give yourself the love that you’ve needed all along. What can happen when you truly love yourself and not to say that that’s an easy place to get to. 

Right. No. And like I said, because I, you know, I, like I started this healing journey with this mindset of like, I need to be better. I need to get fixed, you know, and that’s how I’ll finally be accepted, right? So it’s like, I even started my healing journey, like in a kind of a, you know, an off place. But as I healed and as I did the work, it was like, “Oh, okay, this is actually why I’m healing. I’m healing because I love myself, because I deserve it, because I’m worthy just for existing.” So, I deserve to have a whole life. I deserve to heal. So, yeah. 

Yeah, that is very powerful. Thanks for sharing that. I know a lot of people can relate to that. That’s what it brings a lot of people to healing is, “I need to fix me.” Or really, it’s more often it’s, “Hey, you fix me.” 

Oh, and I’m so sure I had that too. And that was, I think part of, that could have been part of the, that was slowing my progress down in therapy because I did come into it with this idea of like, “Okay, I come in the room, I sit there and the therapist fixes me. She tells me what to do, she tells me what I’m thinking, she tells me what my thoughts are, she tells me what’s in my heart and then I go out and I’m better somehow. You’re like healing through osmosis or something, I don’t know. And so I did have a little bit of frustration like, “Hey, why isn’t this working? I came into your office twice a week for eight months.I want my money back, you know? (both laughing) But it was because it was that shift, you know? 

And I did, honestly, I will be totally honest, I did start off Flourish like that too. I was like, yes, Christina, she’s got it. She knows all the information. She’s gonna heal me. And then it was like, hey, I have to do work too, man! You know? But it, like, it was, it still got me there. You know what I mean? Like I’m just like, whatever gets you in the room, who cares, right? You’re here, you’re showing up. And I think it is a testimony too to like, there was this part of myself that knew the truth about myself, that knew I was worthy of healing, that knew I was worthy of like, getting rid of these effects of abuse in my life. And so even if I did have a little bit of a skewed view, there was this part of me that was still like, no, like I need this, I deserve this, I’m doing this. So I’m like, whatever gets you in the room, and we’ll sort it out later and–

Yes, yes, totally agree. And that is such a common, like there’s no shame in that because I don’t, I don’t know if I know anybody who didn’t have that perspective or that hope that somebody would fix them because we don’t, we feel powerless, you know, abuse makes us feel powerless. So, you know, all we know is, “I can’t fix me. And so somebody else has to do it.” And not that we feel deserving of, you know, the help, but that, “It just has to be somebody else ’cause I know it can’t be me.” And so, and like you said, you know, whatever gets you there, it’s okay. It’s just okay. 

So, something I wanted to share, ’cause I like to, I don’t know if I’ve shared with you even some feedback about my experience, you know, what I’ve observed is, so in Flourish, we have, it’s a community, it’s a small community, so you can really get to know each other and feel comfortable, but it’s a lab. It’s a lab for learning how to do relationship in a healthy way. And one of the things that we get into right away is how to resolve conflict. Because it’s something that a lot of people fear because there was no paradigm for that. That didn’t happen in dysfunctional family or abusive family. It’s just you’re bad and go away until I’m not mad at you anymore. And there was no redemption. And so we talk a lot about rupture and repair. And so one of the, you know, one of the things that we encourage is that, you know, just because we’re, we have differences doesn’t make us wrong. And it doesn’t make the other person wrong or bad. It’s just we’re different. And so we’re going to make meaning in a different way than somebody else does, you know, somebody could say something and that hurt my feelings, but that wasn’t what they meant. Sometimes it was what they meant. But we really, it’s a lab for actually not just experiencing rupture and normalizing, we’ve really have normalized that rupture happens in relationships, that it happens in the closest of relationships, the most loving relationships, because we are different people and differences are to be celebrated. 

So, one of the things that you got really good at is identifying. You have such an amazing way of being in touch with yourself, really being present with, “Ouch, that didn’t feel good.” Or, and even just leaning in and questioning, getting curious about, “Oh, what did you mean by that?” And not a lot of people have the courage to get to the place of–here I am, you know, a mentor to you and you have come to me on multiple occasions and said, “Hey, this really bothered me.” and I respect that so much. I just want to give you, you know, gold stars all over the place. And it’s, and it tells me you care about our relationship and it also, you know, that isn’t where you started, you started practicing with other people in the group and with other people in, in your life, we call it “out in the wild” and, and you are so, so good at that. And what a difference in where you were, you know, people pleasing and doing and saying what you needed to fit in. And now you really are your own person and you know what your feelings are and you know what your thoughts are and you express them. And I am just so delighted to see that change in you.

Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, you know, that was, that was one of, that was a big, like you talked about milestones earlier. And I think that was a huge milestone for me was, you know, ’cause like in Flourish, you know, we learned about boundaries, we learned about using your voice, et cetera, et cetera. And so I was like, you know, dipping my toes in the water, you know, like practicing this “in the wild”, as we say, you know, like with coworkers or with, you know, people in my family or whatever. But then it was a whole new thing to, to say, “Oh, hey, like this kind of like, what did you mean by that? You know, this kind of bothered me” to someone who I perceived as like kind of like an authority figure. You know what I mean? You know, like, like you and so I was like, Oh gosh, you know, and that was a huge milestone for me to be able to be like to to do that because it really was like just like it was it was it was me showing myself that I could show up and speak my truth no matter who was who I was speaking to you know what I mean yeah? Like it was kind of like oh but but I really really want Christina to like me You know, like if I say this, she might not like me anymore. And it was like, it was huge. It was that whole thing of like, do I go for authenticity or do I go for, you know, connection, you know? And I didn’t want to sacrifice either, you know. And so that was a huge milestone. And it just showed me you can have both when you surround yourself with healthy people, you can have both and you can have authenticity and connection. And I think that was it was really important to have that disconfirming experience where I brought this thing up and you were like oh and you listened and you heard me and you like we worked it out. It wasn’t it wasn’t all the things I imagined it to be. You know like I had all these thoughts about “Oh, she’s gonna react this way and she’s gonna tell me this and she’s gonna say this and none of that happened. None of the the fortune -telling and the you know catastrophizing that I did, none of it happened. It actually was like, oh, well, that was pleasant, you know? And so then that gave me the confidence in other relationships, like, oh, okay. 

You know, and not that it always turns out pleasant, you know, and I have had situations where it’s been quite unpleasant. You know, the other person’s reaction was not healthy. And I was still able to be there for myself because it was like, oh, like I still feel good about it because I used my voice and I said what I needed to say. And they, you know, they reacted however, but yeah. So yeah. 

Yeah. And I love that you brought that up because when you’re learning these, you know, these techniques and communication tools and all that, not everybody appreciates that. And you do get responses that you did expect, you know, out in the old world. And so you mentioned a couple of ways that you took care of yourself that, you know, you said that, well, I’d love to hear because I think this is a real key for people. What do you do when your feelings are hurt, when you’re disappointed by getting a response? When you step out, you use your voice, you express your boundaries, and how do you take care of yourself afterward when you don’t get the response that you wanted? 

Well, I think I definitely start with like, I’m not sure how to explain it. Like, okay, so before when I was first healing, I started to be aware of like healthy people and not healthy people, right? And so I had this idea that in order for me to feel safe, I had to only surround myself with healthy people. And I had to control my external circumstances. Like I could not be around someone who was, and I’m not talking about abuse or being someone that’s super toxic. I’m talking about, you know how there’s just like people who are just difficult, right? They don’t always do the things the way you want them to. They don’t see eye to eye with you, like that type of a thing. So I thought that like the way to, that I was going to feel like calm and at ease and safe was to basically never be around difficult people and never be around people who disagreed with me and never be around people who didn’t like my boundaries, you know, like that type of thing. 

Well, that was exhausting and also not practical. Like you can’t do that, right? Like life is full of people who are not, and life, there’s, and there’s toxic people and there’s abusive people, you know, and sometimes you might run into them, you know? And so, so I kind of, so like, so my, my old way of dealing with it was just to like avoid, you know, and only like, you know, associate with like a small amount of people. But when I started widening my circle and realizing like, so basically I had a realization that my like, in order for me to feel safe, it does not depend on what other people think about me, how other people treat me, like what other people do. It’s my job to like bring safety into myself and make myself feel safe and give myself that safety, right? 

So I start with a lot of the reparenting stuff, that I learned in therapy and that I learned in Flourish where I’m giving myself that secure base of secure attachment, you know, inside of myself so that I’m not so attached to, “This person has to behave a certain way for me to feel safe”, you know what I mean? So that’s kind of like the starting place. 

And then, but of course, like there’s, there’s, there’s triggers, you know, I still have raw spots, I still have things that, you know, are not, you know, all the way processed, you know, so, so of course, people are going to bump up against those, you know, when, when we’re, excuse me, you know, when we’re like out and about, you know, and so the main thing is to, that I, that I do is I will take a step back and really pay attention to what’s going on with me, you know, like, I think a lot of times our first reaction is to like really like focus on the other person’s behavior and like what they did and what they’re doing wrong and why did they do this. But that kind of keeps us in that dysregulated state. And so one of the main things that I’ll really try to do is to just like come back to myself and just check in. Okay. What am I feeling? Okay. And like identify the emotion where I’m feeling it in my body. What thoughts I’m having about the situation? Because a lot of times we tell ourselves a certain thought or story about the behavior that may or may not be true, that may or may not be helpful. So I try to really see below the surface emotions of anger or irritation or frustration and what’s underneath it, like, oh, okay, was I feeling embarrassed? Was I feeling shame? Was I feeling you know, whatever you know. And then give myself that comfort that whatever it is I’m looking for you know. And then I can kind of like once I’m in a regulated state like you know in a calm place you know obviously like I’ll do some nervous system work working on breathing somatic stuff–just to kind of get my body like back into regulation And then I can think about okay What, what action steps do I need to take? Like what, how do I want to handle this? Do I want to say something to this person? Do I want to make a boundary? You know, et cetera. And then just kind of go from there. And, and, and of course it depends on like who the person is and like the length of the relationship, et cetera, the safeness of the person, you know, that kind of a thing. But so yeah, so I don’t know if that answers the question. 

Yes, – So beautifully, yes, I think that is such a great example of how you can feel safe with yourself. And, you know, the way that I put it for myself is, I don’t need everything to be okay out here. I make it okay in here. And you really got that as well. So, And I think that’s gold right there because if we don’t have that sense of safety within ourselves then we need to control the environment. We need to control other people and circumstances and that’s one of the reasons why it’s so exhausting just to keep coping. 

So that is one of the things that was a huge thing for me was I was just exhausted all the time. And because I, of course, we want to feel safe. Of course, we want to feel happy. Of course, we want to feel regulated and trying to control other people and places and things and even like traffic for Pete’s sake. You know what I mean? It’s impossible. It’s futile and it’s exhausting, you know? So it’s so much more peaceful to be like, oh, wow, like, you know, and it also, it showed me, like it’s kind of funny since it’s paradox where I like had to let go of control, but it actually showed me how much control I actually did have, you know what I mean? Like I was trying, I was basically trying to control the wrong things. I was leaving unattended, all these other things that I actually did have a choice and a control over. I was leaving those in the dust, just ignoring them, trying to control other things that are not in my sphere of influence. And so then when I flipped it, I was like, oh, wow, I actually have way more control. I actually have way more power and influence and authority over my own life than I realized and that was a game changer. That just helped me to be like, to really be able to have more confidence and show up more, you know, authentically in life because I wasn’t so like, I didn’t feel like so helpless and powerless all the time. 

Yes, you are so empowered because of how you take care of yourself. Yeah. That’s so good. So you mentioned, you’ve mentioned a few challenges. One of the main ones that you’ve mentioned is that you thought you needed to fix yourself and are there any other challenges that you can think of? I mean, of course, the healing journey is full of challenges because life is full of challenges, but is there anything else in particular that you’d like to share? 

I would say, like, one of the challenges that I did face was that I don’t know what you call that crossroads of realizing, “Oh, I actually need to do this work.” So I’m someone who loves studying, I love learning, I’m back in college right now, I’m finishing my degree, I’m loving it, I love reading, I love just amassing information is like my jam. I’m like, “Yes, bring it on. I love this.” And so that part of healing was no problem for me. I’m like, “Yes, give me another article about neuroplasticity. Give me another article about boundaries.” Absolutely. But then where the rubber meets the road is where we, especially in Flourish, you would do these exercises where you do these 30-day challenges. And so you’d give us for example, when we were learning about the nervous system, I was like, yes, this is great. Okay, yeah, okay, I’m learning, I’m learning, I’m loving all this information. And then comes the 30-day challenge. And I’m like, what is all this? Like, right, so we had to actually put into practice the things we were learning on a daily basis for 30 days and like, you know, do the breathing exercises, you know, use the self soothing plan and like work with our nervous system and, you know, and, and get a feel for, okay, how does this feel? Okay. Am I feeling more regulated, less regulated, you know, and that, that was one of my challenges was shifting from that passive learning mode to actually taking action. 

And part of it was because I had a low tolerance for frustration. Like I had to, I had to build my build my frustration tolerance and part of it too was that those old scripts from childhood where if it’s like, if you don’t do it perfectly right away, then you’re a failure. So I had to get out of that fixed mindset and get into a growth mindset where I was like, “Oh, the journey is the work. It’s okay if you don’t do it perfectly. Just try.” And like, okay, let’s try again. Okay, that didn’t turn out right the first time. Let’s try again. So I think that was stretching into a growth mindset from having such a fixed rigid mindset for so many years. That was a challenge because I constantly felt like I was failing because I wasn’t getting it perfect on the first try. And I think it was so good for me for not to be perfect on the first try because I did, well, especially within the 30-day timeframe, because it was finite, right? Like I could sit there and have all these excuses of like, “Oh, well, I’ll try tomorrow.” If there wasn’t a deadline, I would probably just avoid it and then never really progress. But because there was a deadline, it was like, “Okay, well, I have to get something down on paper. I have to do something.” You know? And so it was really good for me to do it and do it imperfectly and do it messy and not do it the air quotes right way and realize that I was still making progress. Yeah. So that was that was that was one of the challenges that ended up being like a really a blessing you know because it was it helped me to see like it’s okay like just do something. Anything any action you take is moving the needle and and if it’s not perfect, that’s okay. Like, keep trying, you know. 

Yes. And that’s so powerful too. And that is actually another thing that a lot of survivors get stuck in is the learning about healing versus doing the healing work. And I have a podcast episode. It’s episode 29. And I’m going to put a link to that in the show notes page because it is so, I included it in my episode where I did eight of the biggest mistakes in healing, but I did even more because there’s so much more to share on that. But yeah, we use it as a coping method. It’s the feeling of, yes, I’m doing something, I’m progressing, but actually if we’re not taking action, we’re not actually progressing. 

And also just knowing that when you take action, it’s going to be frustrating. I think that’s another myth that I had in my mind. I thought, “Oh, well, if I have enough information, I just kept thinking this shouldn’t be frustrating. I should just do it effortlessly and easily and perfectly.” But it’s like, “Well, this is a brand new. How, how, why would I expect myself to do it perfectly? And it’s exactly like when we’re babies and we’re learning to crawl, we’re learning to walk. It’s frustrating for babies when they’re learning to walk. It’s that they’re using muscles for the very first time. They’re using synapses that are like, that are brand new, you know, and so, and it’s like that when we’re learning these things, you know, so I think that was one of the big things is like things is like just, it’s okay if it’s frustrating. It’s new. Of course, it’s frustrating. Your brain has never done this before. Of course, it’s frustrating, you know? 

Yes. And yeah, to allow the messy action, and it is so good, and you shared this, and I so agree with it, that it’s actually good because it does challenge those preconceived ideas that we have that only perfect gets us to moving forward. And that isn’t the case. And it also helps us to be more comfortable with our imperfections, to be more accepting, and to even celebrate, “Yeah, okay, I stood up today and I fell on my face. Yay for me.” Like, that’s progress. 

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And you even in one of our, in one of the challenges that you talked to us about recently, you had asked us to, to ask someone a favor and not give all the like, “Oh, it’s okay if you can’t do it,” you know, like give them the easy way out, right? Yeah. And so, and it’s so funny, like just the different, like the difference that I see from myself now, you know, from back when I first started, where now, so I did, I did this challenge and the first two times that I went to go ask this person a favor, I wasn’t able to do it without giving like the, “Oh, it’s okay, blah, blah, blah, you don’t need to do it.” And I was like, man, but like the difference now is I didn’t feel shame about it. I didn’t beat myself up. I was like, yeah, it’s okay. And I would kind of laughed about it. I was like, oh my gosh, like, wow, okay. Like I started out with these really good intentions and I was like laughing. I was like, okay. So then I was like, I’m gonna try again, right? Did the same thing the second time. And I was like, dang it. Okay, and then, but so like the difference in me now is that I have this thing where I’m like, no, I’m gonna try again. Like I want to do this. I want to grow. And I didn’t feel bad. I didn’t feel like I failed. I didn’t even feel like I did anything wrong. It was just like, okay, like this is information that this is a really ingrained habit. And let’s try again. And so then by the third, and by the third try, guess what, I got it. And it was great. 

So like, you know, anyway, so it’s just like that whole difference where as before, like maybe two years ago, I would have beat myself up. I would have felt like I was a failure. I would have been like, “Oh, you’re, you know, you’re not far along, you’re not far along enough in your journey. Like how could you, you know, like how could you not do something so simple?” Like I wouldn’t really have had a lot of thoughts and that wasn’t, that wasn’t going on at all. So yeah. 

Yes. And I just want to share what the challenge was in case anybody wants to play along because it was so full of insight and I loved what you shared is, and so the challenge was to ask someone for a favor, someone you feel uncomfortable asking. Like I played along too, and I just regularly ask Don for favors all the time, my husband. And so I knew it couldn’t be him, but it was a real challenge too because it’s something I have been practicing, you know, asking for my needs and it so I it was a challenge to find someone that or are asking for a thing that I actually did feel uncomfortable about but I did and so the challenge is ask somebody for something you feel uncomfortable about and don’t say and this is for homework and don’t say and it’s totally fine if you say no, you know, don’t like pay attention to if you’re trying to fix their feelings, if you’re trying to solve their discomfort as though you know what they’re feeling and pay attention to your discomfort, like what kind of things you do to solve that discomfort and, and then ask the question and then pay attention to and then just don’t say anything and, and just wait for a response and pay attention to what you tell yourself about it. Like, um, Andrea, you just said, you know, you really, even though you didn’t do what you intended to do. You, you, you know, essentially you did it imperfectly, but you didn’t beat yourself up for it. You took care of yourself in the midst of that and you encouraged yourself and you practiced again. And so that’s the kind of thing it gives us insight when we do something like that. First of all, it’s practice stepping out of that side of our comfort zone, which is a fantastic skill to master. And also, it gives us insight about how we perceive ourselves, “Oh, I’m such a burden. Oh, I don’t want to trouble somebody. Oh, I have to remind them of what I did for them.” So, pay attention to the voices in your head and what you’re telling yourself because it really helps you to get to know yourself better and it can challenge you to take care of yourself even better. So, what are some key insights you’ve gained? 

I just, just in general, I’m just, I’m looking at my life now and like looking like where I’ve come from. And I’m just like, I’m living a life that I never thought was possible, you know. And I’m like, I’m living a life where I am waking up and I’m excited like for what the day is going to bring. I’m excited to be alive, excited to experience life. I’m excited and I’m feeling like joy and happiness. I didn’t think that that was possible five years ago, I’m living a life where I feel empowered. 

I feel like I really feel and know that I have agency in my own life, that I can take care of myself, I can protect myself, I can show up how I need to, and I have agency in my life. I can affect my life in positive ways, and I can create the life that I’m wanting, and I’m literally in the process of doing that. I’m just seeing all these. Before, I kind of would just sit back and just hope and wish and just like, “Oh, wouldn’t that be so great if my life could be like this? Wouldn’t that be so great if I didn’t have anxiety? Wouldn’t that be so great if I had joy or whatever?” And now I’m actually making it happen in my life. And it’s incredible. And I didn’t know that I had that in me. You know, like I didn’t know that I could do that, you know. And so that’s one thing where I just, I feel so much more empowered to like, where if I don’t like something in my life, if something’s not working for me, guess what? I can change it. I’m like, wow, like, that’s amazing. Like, I can make choices, you know. 

And it kind of goes back to that, when we’ve released control of those things that we never had control over and were never intended to have control over, when we let go of that and we actually start managing and being a good steward of the things that are in our control and that are our responsibility, it’s like, everything just opens up. And you’re just like, oh, wow, like, this is what it’s meant to be like, you know. 

And another huge insight was that, like, community is so, so helpful, like, that this healing needs to be done in community, you know. And I actually, when I first started my healing journey, I actually did not believe that. I was just like, nope, nope, I’m not sharing this stuff with anybody. It’s just me and my therapist, that’s it, you know. And but as I have gone through gone through Flourish and being in this healing community, I have seen that doing this healing process with healthy and safe people in a moderated environment was just unbelievable. Like it helped me, it was like you said, it was like a lab of learning how to do relationships for the first time in a healthy way. And that was like so, so beneficial for me. Like just, that was just incredible, you know, where it got me, you know, to be able to open up and learn to trust and learn to say, “Oh, it’s okay to be myself and people still accept me” you know. And, and, you know, so it was just, it was just incredible. 

I’m so glad it was such a good experience for you. You really took the tools and you ran with it. So what are you most proud of and what you’ve accomplished in getting your life back and getting your power and the healing that you have experienced? What are you most proud of?

I think I’m most, I think I’m most proud of just being on my own side and being there for myself. And you know, I know that sounds kind of like, I don’t know, trite or whatever, but I, it was really the self of like, you know, being abandoned by your parents is, is, is one thing. And then to abandon yourself is like a whole nother level of pain, you know. And so like coming back to back to myself and giving myself that assurance that I’m always going to be there for myself. I’m always going to be on my side. I’m always going to take care of myself. I think that is just, I think one of my greatest accomplishments because that is the basis for me doing all this other stuff. You know what I mean? Going out and learning all these other things and having agency in my life. Just really being able to say what I really think and to really show up authentically, even in the face of other people that might not agree with me, other people that might not think I’m right or they might criticize me or whatever. I think that was a huge accomplishment. 

And it’s still ongoing, of course. I’m always wanting to grow more and more in that and go to the next level in that awareness and in that growth. But yeah, I just feel like because that was just such a people pleasing and like being a chameleon and like doing like abandoning myself for other people’s comfort was just such a habit in my life and it was so painful and it was causing so many problems that I think I’m finally being able to like show up as myself and and and be my authentic self, even if other people don’t like it, even if it makes other people uncomfortable and not trying to manage their tension over it. You know what I mean? Like just this being who I am and letting other people be who they are, you know, um, it’s just, it was just for me such a huge accomplishment because it just kind of broke that, that bondage that was in my life. You know, I felt like I was trapped. I felt like I was always trapped by other people’s, um, perception of me and ideas about me and what they thought of me and if they approved of me and it was like being in prison. It was there’s like a freedom and being like, you know, this is who I am. So. 

Yes. Well, you certainly have a lot to be proud of. And I’m certainly proud of you. You’ve brought us a lot of insights and tips and some specific steps that others can follow. And a lot of encouragement and inspiration to thank you so much for joining us today. I’m so delighted to talk with you and hear the details of your healing journey. 

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was really, really awesome. Yeah, I really, really, really appreciate it. And I just, um, yeah, I just, and I really, I want people to know like People you know that have experienced sexual abuse and even people that haven’t even people that are you know Just struggling with a lot of these same things and maybe that’s not necessarily related to actual abuse like that healing is possible That it is it’s not some far -off like lofty dream like oh, you know Like that certain people are cut out for and certain people aren’t like anybody can do this work Like we have it inside of us, you know, I, you know, I do think it, you know, we need like the tools and good information, but anybody, this is accessible to anybody at any point in time, no matter where you are in your journey. Like there’s nobody that’s too far gone. There’s nobody that’s too broken or like it’s available to, to everybody. 

Beautifully said. Well thanks for joining me today. I’m bringing you lots more on healing and boundaries and self care and family dysfunction and so much more. So be sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss any of it.